How to use a podcast to build a successful business with Joanne Bolt | Ep. 23 Content Magic with Lindsay Smith

On todays's episode, I'm welcoming a very special guest, my friend Joanne Bolt, founder of PodcastHer. She is a podcasting superstar and is revolutionizing the way female podcast hosts market themselves. 

We chat about the importance of long form content , how to create a super simple sales funnel, and why borrowing an audience can be a game-changer for your business. 

With her southern charm and wealth of knowledge, you aren't going to want to miss this one! 

06:27 Podcast led to effortless coaching client conversions.
08:33 Successful shift from real estate to coaching female entrepreneurs.
12:10 Podcast helps build trust and relationships effectively.
16:46 Creating warm introductions in real estate increases opportunities.
18:45 Highlighting and personal recommendation led to 85% conversion.
22:15 Improving networking for podcast promotions and visibility.
25:02 Borrowing audience for collaborative visibility through borrowing.
28:28 Encouraging engagement and gratitude for listening.


CONNECT WITH JOANNE!
Instagram: @itsjoannebolt
Website: PodcastHer.com
Podcast: The B-Word

Joanne [00:00:00]:
You can buy, borrow, or build exactly your audience. There's three ways. That's it.

Lindsay [00:00:05]:
And I think we kind of forget about the borrow.

Lindsay [00:00:08]:
If you have an online business, you're creating content. And the way you create content is more important than ever. It's really noisy out there, and learning to stand out is the only way. Hey, I'm Lindsay, and I'm the host of the content Magic podcast, all about being an entrepreneur and creating kick ass content to market yourself and your business. I have a not so secret superpower for copywriting, marketing, and content, and I've helped hundreds of folks just like you show up with a ton of confidence in the online space. I've been doing this content thing for 20 years, and I believe the real magic is a combo of intuition, creativity, and strategy. You can create content for your business without losing your mind, I promise. So, tune in every week for tangible content, tips, inspiring guests, and some real spicy opinions.

Lindsay [00:01:00]:
Probably mine. Ready to dive in? Let's go.

Lindsay [00:01:07]:
Hey, gang. Welcome back to the podcast. And I have another fab guest for you. In fact, my friend Joanne was a big sort of catalyst to starting this whole podcast. So welcome, Joanne.

Joanne [00:01:21]:
Oh, Lindsey, thank you so much. I love, love, love when I get to see my fellow entrepreneurs dive into the podcast world, because, you know, it is my favorite form of marketing.

Lindsay [00:01:31]:
Yeah, I'm having a lot of fun, and I've been actually saying, is there, like, I just recorded an episode called is social media dead? Because I feel like, I don't know, there's a move towards more long form content, so I'm here for it.

Joanne [00:01:48]:
Yeah, me, too. I feel like people. People are really diving back into long form content in order to deepen their relationship with people, because it's still kind of like the silent stalker, if you think about it. You know, I can watch you on Instagram and feel like I get to know you and you don't actually know I'm watching you on Instagram. But then they can hop over to a YouTube or a podcast or a blog and go for the long form content, and they get a little bit more information. They get to know you as a brand or a person or a service provider, and again, they get to do it silently without you really knowing that they're there, which is just. I don't know, people like the easability of it.

Lindsay [00:02:25]:
Yes. And the creeping.

Joanne [00:02:28]:
And the creeping.

Lindsay [00:02:30]:
So why don't you tell us where you are, who you are, and what you do and who you help?

Joanne [00:02:35]:
Lindsay, again, thank you so much for having me my name is Joanne Bolt. I am from Atlanta, Georgia. For those of you that notice the southern accent, I've been told it's quite strong, though I personally can't hear it myself. And I run a company called Podcast her, where we enable women podcast hosts to make that podcast the top of their marketing funnel.

Lindsay [00:02:56]:
Love that. So, can you tell us a little bit more about how that works?

Joanne [00:03:02]:
Oh, absolutely. Here's the thing, Lindsey. A podcast, as you and I were just discussing, people are really moving to long form content. You know, that's how they want to consume things. And a podcast is really your best top of marketing funnel. It helps you gather in your audience, it helps you grow the audience so that you can then put them in whatever funnel you want to bring them into your world for your product, your services, your company, your organization, whatever it is you sell. The thing is, marketing is actually easier than anyone could ever imagine. You only need two things, Lindsey.

Joanne [00:03:39]:
If you're going to market, you need a funnel and you need an offer. That's it. You need the top of funnel and the bottom of funnel. Everything else are just the pieces of how you move people down the funnel. So if we can build an audience at top of funnel with a podcast or a YouTube video or a blog, those long form content, it is way easier to get them down into the bottom of the funnel, which is your offer. So, at podcast her, we start with. We've got a course for teaching people how to start a podcast, because that's obviously the very beginning of creating that audience builder. But the main thing we do is actually a network called podcast her.

Joanne [00:04:20]:
The network. It's a marketing network for female podcast hosts, where we just make everything on an easy button for you to get out your podcast into the earbuds of your fellow audiences so that you can borrow their audience, really, of other podcast hosts and grow the visibility of you and your offer, because it's all about building that audience.

Lindsay [00:04:44]:
Love that. And so, can you tell us how? I mean, you've been podcasting for a while. Yes.

Joanne [00:04:49]:
Oh, yeah. Three years. I love it. I actually started it as a hobby, you know, like just a little bitty piece of the business that I kind of thought, well, you know, we'll just see how this goes. Kind of like Instagram. Like, we'll just see how this goes. And it quickly began to be obvious to me that it was the number one revenue driver in my business.

Lindsay [00:05:09]:
Okay, so tell me a bit more about that, because I know, like, you started out in real estate, and the first sort of edition of your podcast was more about the real estate industry, and then you shifted. I did, yes. Tell us a bit more about that.

Joanne [00:05:26]:
Yeah, so I actually, when I first started everything, I was coaching real estate agents. And so I started the podcast as a way to scale that coaching business because everyone here in Georgia or the Atlanta area, like, they knew me as a real estate agent. I ran a $56 million producing team and they knew that I would coach newer agents. And so when I started leaning more into the coaching side of things because I, quite frankly, enjoyed it more than running the business team, I was like, well, how do I scale this? Because I'm always looking at businesses as how do we scale this? And the only way to scale something like that was to be able to reach a bigger audience. So I was like, well, how can I reach a bigger audience? And at first I thought, maybe it's Instagram. You know, I was watching a couple of friends of mine in the coaching world, and they were using Instagram reels and, and, you know, lives and things of that nature. But I thought, gosh, I just, I think that there's got to be a better way. I really believe in the coaching space.

Joanne [00:06:27]:
Getting to know someone on 30, 60 and 92nd quick videos is just, I'm still going to have to have a, you know, a come to Jesus call with you, if you want to say it that way, in order to determine if I'm going to hand you over my credit card to be my coach. And then I thought, well, what about a podcast? Like, if I could talk for 2030 and 40 minutes instead of 30, 60 or 90 seconds, would that cut down on the amount of calls I had to take? Or would people already feel like they know me, like me and trust me, and just go ahead and register in for coaching? So it's kind of like the experiment, right? And I went and I developed the podcast and we, I started talking and coaching, and guess what? It happened way bigger than I thought it was going to happen. Like, I literally, from the time I started the podcast to the time I stopped coaching in the real estate space, I don't think I ever took one, you know, call to try to convert someone into a coaching client. I put a button on a website. I made it easy peasy for them to click the button and input their credit card and sign up for coaching space with me. And boom, things just started to happen. And I make it sound super simple because at the core of it, it really was. Everything else we do as entrepreneurs, we are just adding fluff to the system.

Joanne [00:07:49]:
You don't actually have to have the best website out there. You do not have to have the most in depth email sequence out there. Do they help? Sure. But at the core of it, you just need a way to build the audience and again, have the offer. And that's what I provided with the first iteration of the podcast. And then it got to where I found that as I was coaching these global real estate agents, what I was really leaning into was not the mechanics of being a real estate agent. It wasn't the buying and the selling of the homes. It was, how do they actually turn that into a business? How do they become entrepreneurs? What the heck is a p and l profit and loss statement? Why do we even need a database? You know, like, what do you do with.

Joanne [00:08:33]:
And so, as I started really leaning into the business side of things, which I believe is really what made me super successful as an, as an agent. When I was running the team, I started to discover that there was a whole other world out there of female entrepreneurs who also needed that type of coaching. And so then I started leaning into that audience, and over time, things have just evolved where I don't ever actually coach or very rarely do I talk to real estate agents anymore. I talk to women like you who have amazing businesses, and they're like, well, how do I reach a bigger audience? And so the more and more I started really teaching people how to turn a podcast into the top of their marketing funnel, the more and more I started leaning into. Now that you've got that podcast, how do we help you make it easy to get in front of bigger and new audiences? And so things have just kind of spiraled, I won't say out of control, but spiraled in a direction all on its own with that. I'm absolutely loving this ride right now.

Lindsay [00:09:30]:
Spiraled into control.

Joanne [00:09:32]:
Into control. Ooh, I like that. Yeah.

Lindsay [00:09:35]:
Okay, so let's talk about how. And, you know, and I, like, you see me nodding my head. I'm not using video, but I'm nodding my head to everything you're saying she is.

Joanne [00:09:47]:
And she's got, like, this cute little ponytail thing going, like, bobbing along.

Lindsay [00:09:52]:
That's all I can do with my short hair. Let, like, let's talk about your podcast as, like, top of funnel, because I think, you know, as you know, I help people create content, and so anytime I say the word content, people immediately think Instagram. They do. And, yeah, and people immediately think, like, which is funny, because, you know, it's this free thing. Besides the use of your time and energy. And there's this weird pressure that if, you know, this reel doesn't convert or this post, and I just don't think Instagram converts. Like, you know, it can, like, long term, but it's a process. And I think gone are the days where you're just like, oh, dm me the word, and then someone just randomly buy something.

Lindsay [00:10:48]:
So what I love about this, like, having a podcast, is that people, you know, they can feel your energy from your voice. And if you choose to use video, then people can see you and see your expressions and, you know, see how you operate. So if. Let's talk. What would you say to somebody who's like, okay, I want to start podcasting. How do I use it to grow my business?

Joanne [00:11:15]:
I would say that it almost grows your business for you as long as you're consistent with it, and here's why. Lindsey, you nailed it on the head. Instagram is awesome, but it doesn't necessarily convert. I like to think of Instagram like the billboard on the side of the road. If you are flying down the interstate at 70 something miles per hour and you keep glancing up at these billboards for, let's say, say, a car dealership, you might know when it's time to buy a car that you saw those billboards, but you may not necessarily remember or trust that dealership is going to get you the best price on the car. But if you have a long form content. So the billboard introduces you to my, my product service, the car dealership. If I can go to something like a podcast, I can listen to three, four, five episodes, I can binge them all in a row.

Joanne [00:12:10]:
And I'm going to know, let's be honest, I'm going to know pretty quickly by the sound of the host, by what they talk about, by how they explain things, whether I click with that person or not. So I'm going to form that relationship ahead of time to where? Now I'm going to go to that car dealership, and I already trust that the salespeople there are going to treat me correctly, or I'm going to go and find a different one, because I can listen to their podcast and I can say, nope, they're not the right one for me. And that's okay, too. And that is why when you implement something like this, because people get to hear your tone. They get to hear how you explain things. They get to discover for themselves whether they are going to form a relationship with you or not. Your, your marketing just gets easier at that point because you've pointed them to you with the Instagram, and you've developed the relationship with the podcast. So if someone's thinking, should I start one? I would first say, do you have the bandwidth to be consistent with it? You don't have to put out five episodes a week, and they don't have to be 60 minutes.

Joanne [00:13:14]:
They can be between five and 20 minutes. Mine, my typical one is 22 minutes long, but if you can consistently put it out at least once a week, now, when it's time for me to determine, okay, maybe I want to dive more into that billboard and see more about this person, I can go find their podcast, I can listen to five or six episodes, and I can make that self realization for myself if I want to move forward with you as a service product provider or not.

Lindsay [00:13:44]:
Yes, agreed. And I. You know, that meme of the guy that holds up the sign in the. In, like, the crowds, I feel like that's what Instagram.

Joanne [00:13:53]:
Instagram is.

Lindsay [00:13:54]:
Yes. Right? And it's like. It's like you're just on, like, a street corner, like, yelling your thing, hello, this. Right?

Joanne [00:14:01]:
And, well, and it's, you know, Instagram, I love it. I mean, I'm on it. It's my favorite, like, social media platform. But you, the algorithm is constantly changing, and you have zero control over that. Zero. I can put out content on Instagram twice a day, seven days a week. And that doesn't mean that you, Lindsey, are going to see it. And you and I are connected on Instagram like we're friends.

Joanne [00:14:26]:
And that still doesn't mean you're going to see it, much less anyone else. Whereas I can put out a couple of episodes on a podcast, I can put some good, juicy SEO titles in there. And if someone goes and searches for what I'm talking about, they might find me and I might get that visibility that I need. And, oh, by the way, now it's evergreen, because once they find the podcast, you know, they can just keep going down all my episodes. Unlike, if I turn on Instagram and I start going through the reels and I look at your reel, I'm like, oh, that's fun. Guess what? The next reel is on and it's not yours. But if you go to my podcast on Apple Podcast and you start playing one, Apple's going to feed you my next one and then my next one and my next one. And now I've got a captivated audience.

Lindsay [00:15:15]:
Yeah, it's like Netflix when it's like, are you still watching? Yes, of course. I'm still watching?

Joanne [00:15:19]:
Yes, I'm still watching.

Lindsay [00:15:20]:
Of course.

Joanne [00:15:21]:
Keep feeding it to me.

Lindsay [00:15:23]:
Stop. Don't ask. Okay, so you said that, you know, marketing becomes easier when, like, essentially using your podcast as a funnel, right? Like, you have, like, if your podcast is top of funnel content, and then essentially, you know, bottom of the funnel is your offer. So, like, how do we. And it's funny, right? Like, people, when you. When you say you have a podcast, people are like, they think, like, the only way to grow is, like, you know, like, the Lewis Howes of podcasts. Like, oh, you have to have all these ads, and that's the only way you can make money, which I don't.

Joanne [00:16:10]:
I don't agree with that.

Lindsay [00:16:11]:
Okay, so tell us about that, because not, we're, you know, most of us are not going to have millions of.

Joanne [00:16:18]:
People writing to us, millions of people listening in. You know, Lindsey, it comes back to the skillset I learned in real estate. I never made a cold call in real estate. I didn't take out ads as a real estate agent. I didn't. I did. I think I paid for postcard marketing, like, my first three years, and then I quit even that because I discovered one thing. It's all about word of mouth.

Joanne [00:16:46]:
So I discovered in real estate that if I had a client who called me up and said, hey, I told my neighbor about you, I was probably never going to hear from that neighbor. But if I had a client who called me up and said, I told my neighbor about you, and then I took that next step and said, oh, my gosh, can you connect me directly? You know, can you send a text message with both of us on it? Now, that relationship is more of a warm intro. And so I had about a 65% better chance of actually getting just the opportunity to present to the neighbor about my services. And so my team and I started, like, playing with that concept of training our clients to, like, make the warm introduction, not just give out a referral name. And so we actually started doing that with our vendor list, because when you are a real estate agent, you were also, like, the Angie's list of everything your clients are always going to want to know. Like, hey, do you have a list of painters because I hate the bathroom wall color? Or do you have a plumber because, oh, my gosh, the master sink is leaking. Or do you, like, they want your vendor list almost as much as anything else. Like, it was gold.

Joanne [00:17:59]:
So we started testing this theory, and our theory was that relationship based marketing is literally the easiest thing you can do in order to convert clients. And so we started for six months. If someone said, hey, you guys have your blah blah blah blah blah, whatever they wanted. We just handed out the vendor list. And in every category of the list, we had about three names on it. We always like to have options for people. And what we started doing, we tracked, okay, we handed the list out, let's say, because our client wanted a painter, and then we would call our painter three or four days later, and we would say, hey, did so and so contact you? And then, so we did that for about six months. And then the next six months, what we started doing was handing the list out.

Joanne [00:18:45]:
And we started putting on the list, like highlighted a name that said, hey, some of our clients have used this one. And guess what? 35% more of our clients started calling the highlighted one in the list. Now we took that next step. So we did this over a period of like 18 months. We started handing out that same list. We didn't change any of the names on it, but we started not only highlighting one of the names, but we then made a notation on it that said, we've personally used, you know, and when we would make the comment of, hey, this is the painter that just painted my bathroom or my master bedroom, it was almost an 85% chance that our clients were going to use that painter, because that warm recommendation of not only, here's a name that I know of, or I know someone else used them, but, like, I like them myself, almost guaranteed that our clients would use that vendor. So it was the same kind of correlation to us as if I just told someone, oh, yeah, call Joanne to sell a home. Or if I got introduced to them, that increase in conversion opportunity.

Joanne [00:20:02]:
Right? So that is kind of like what we're doing now in the marketing space in the podcast, her network. We are actually helping women get those warm introductions via the podcast. Because if you, if I were to say on the b word podcast, hey, go listen to Lindsey. She's awesome at what she does. There's a really good chance my listeners are going to pop on over to you. So if you look at it from that perspective, you don't have to spend ad money. All you really need is the right referral network who already has a network or an audience base of podcast listeners to tell someone, oh, my gosh, go listen to so and so. You'll love their podcast.

Joanne [00:20:46]:
And guess what happens? A good portion of their audience clicks over and discovers you.

Lindsay [00:20:51]:
Yeah. And, um, and it's funny, I spoke with a, I had a new client last week, and she wanted some help with her content, but 90% of her clients came from referrals.

Joanne [00:21:04]:
Yep.

Lindsay [00:21:05]:
So she was kind of like, you know, I don't. I don't need to be out in the content space. I just feel like I have more to say. So. And, you know, it's. Do you remember. I know Facebook has changed a million times, but. But do you remember the old Facebook, and then now it's.

Lindsay [00:21:22]:
It's, you know, it shifted. I don't know when, but it was like, there's, like, an option. Do you recommend this? Like, it. There's. There's an option on Facebook. Oh, you're right.

Joanne [00:21:32]:
They did used to have that.

Lindsay [00:21:33]:
Yeah. I don't know if they do anymore anyways, but I agree. And I was listening to Amy tra's podcast, as I do, and so she has, like, a little shout out for Maria Crider, and even though I know both of them, but. And it's. And I love that it's just organic. And I know that you have, like, a special superpower of, like, matching two people up and being like, you shout out this person, and you shout out this person, which I feel like is different from some of the bigger names that, you know, it's just like a database, and it's like a robot that pairs you with somebody else.

Joanne [00:22:15]:
Yeah. We're actually continuing to improve the process of the networking cross marketing promotions in order to make it, again, that easy button, easy marketing. So now what we're really helping our podcast hosts do is introduce other women in the podcast, her network around some very specific things. So around their launches or around their evergreen products or visibility. So we've got three categories that we really focus on, because we fully believe that visibility will help you grow that audience. But if we are looking at the audience and the offer, top of funnel, bottom of funnel, then we want to focus on the top of funnel visibility and on your offers, which is the bottom of your funnel. And so we've actually continued to improve our process so that when we. When we help create those cross promotions, it is very specifically around those two items and only those two items, so that when it comes time for your launch to happen, like, oh, it's just.

Joanne [00:23:18]:
It's like butter.

Lindsay [00:23:19]:
Yeah.

Joanne [00:23:20]:
You know, it's so. It's Chef's kiss. It's so easy.

Lindsay [00:23:23]:
And I think there's, like, you know, when you think of visibility or you think of, like, you know, getting ready for a launch or whatever, right, people. You know, and I know I've done this, like, the first program I created, like, three years ago. I just was like, okay, here's some emails. Here's some social media stuff. Bye.

Joanne [00:23:43]:
My launch was such a disaster. My very first launch ever was such a disaster.

Lindsay [00:23:47]:
Same. Mine, too.

Joanne [00:23:48]:
Now, mind you, I was coming out of the world of real estate, so the whole concept of launching was, like, foreign to me. And so I really kind of thought, hey, in real estate, you go, you make an appointment, you do a presentation, they sign with you. Like, I thought, in the digital world, that's kind of what launching was. Yeah. Send out a series of email, boom, they'll just buy from you. No, that is. That is not launching. It is completely different in the digital world.

Joanne [00:24:14]:
We've come a long way since then.

Lindsay [00:24:15]:
Yeah. Oh, my God. Yeah. My first launch, there was, like, 26 people in the zoom waiting room, and I was, like, talking. I didn't let them in.

Joanne [00:24:25]:
I did a webinar that kicked me out at the end because I did not realize it would count down the 60 minutes. I'm a chatterbox. And so I went over my 60 minutes, and the next thing, before I had even hit the button to release the sale.

Lindsay [00:24:40]:
Oh, no.

Joanne [00:24:41]:
Like, it kicked me out, and then I couldn't figure out how to get back in. So all of my attendees were, like, still in there, and I couldn't go. I could not figure out how to get back in. I mean, things happen, you know, that's just what happens.

Lindsay [00:24:52]:
And then you just. You just learn, and you're like, well, I'm never gonna do that again.

Joanne [00:24:55]:
Yeah. Nope. Now I know what I'm doing on a webinar in a masterclass. Like, I've gotten a lot better at that. So there's that.

Lindsay [00:25:02]:
But what I was gonna say is this idea of borrowing an audience, which I think we sort of forget about. Right. Which is what we're doing right now. And I think, you know, and I think there's a lot of power in that. And I was talking to somebody recently, and she was just like, that's what I feel most comfortable with, like, collaborations, and, you know, we all know the way to get visibility. You can buy ads, you can borrow.

Joanne [00:25:32]:
Somebody, or you can buy, borrow, or build.

Lindsay [00:25:34]:
Exactly.

Joanne [00:25:35]:
Your audience.

Lindsay [00:25:36]:
Right.

Joanne [00:25:36]:
So there's three ways. That's it.

Lindsay [00:25:39]:
And I think we kind of forget about the borrow. So. And I feel like podcasting is. That's a really great borrow.

Joanne [00:25:48]:
Podcasting, in and of itself is how you build podcasting where you're on someone else that you're guesting or doing a shout out across promotion. That is where you borrow. And when you can combine the two of those, your top of funnel is magnificently bigger.

Lindsay [00:26:07]:
Yeah, agreed. Also, I remember you told me that my first ten episodes were gonna suck. Yes, you were right.

Joanne [00:26:16]:
Well, I'm sorry to be right in that instance, but, yeah, everyone's first ten suck.

Lindsay [00:26:22]:
But then once you make friends with it, right, you're just kind of like, well, whatever, embrace to suck and just.

Joanne [00:26:27]:
Know, like, yeah, okay, I thought it. You can be, like, the best speaker on stage ever and it will still suck. You can be the best instagrammer and it'll still suck. It doesn't matter. Like, you've gotta. You gotta get used to talking into a microphone from an office. If you're doing solo episodes, you are literally talking to the wall. And that is so awkward.

Lindsay [00:26:47]:
I know.

Joanne [00:26:48]:
You know? And so, like, just embrace the suck. Everyone goes through it and. No, we're all gonna go back and laugh at it, and that's okay.

Lindsay [00:26:54]:
Yeah. Yeah. And I don't know what episode this is. We're in, like, 20 something, so let's hope I made it through the suck and I'm on the other side.

Joanne [00:27:03]:
You have. You've crested the hill, my friend.

Lindsay [00:27:05]:
You've crested the hill, Joanne. Where can people find you and how can they work with you?

Joanne [00:27:11]:
Oh, that is a great question. Honestly, the best place to find me is on Instagram. My handle is Joanne Bolt. So its. And then my name, Joanne Bolt. And we've actually got a live webinar coming up soon. You can go to podcasther.com, easy marketing, and I'm going to walk you through on this webinar for 60 minutes. My entire playbook of this top of funnel to bottom of funnel concept, how to grow your audience to sell your offer.

Joanne [00:27:42]:
Like, we're just going to go all the way through it so that any of one in your audience could take this back and implement it into their own business.

Lindsay [00:27:50]:
Love it. And I've been part of some of your trainings, and you always add value and great stuff. And also the name of your podcast so we can send people.

Joanne [00:28:02]:
The podcast is called the b Word. With Joanne Bolt, it's the b word.

Lindsay [00:28:06]:
Yes. I love that. And I know you. You thought about changing it. I'm glad you didn't.

Joanne [00:28:13]:
Yeah, I thought about it for a hot second, then I was like, you know what? Really? I'm snarky. It's who I am. Yeah, I might as well just keep it called the b word.

Lindsay [00:28:22]:
Awesome. Well, thanks for joining us today. And we'll see everybody next time.

Lindsay [00:28:28]:
Thank you so much for listening. If you loved what you heard, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review, or share this episode on social media. And don't forget to tag me on Instagram. Lindsaysmithcreative and if you do all three, I'll be your best friend forever and invite you to all my birthday parties. That's it for today, and I'll see you next time.